Written by Ben Terrett, a Graphic Designer in London. This blog is primarily about graphic design followed by design in general and then some related stuff about communication, ideas and inevitably brands.
He didn't speak, he only chaired a session. But he was very well briefed, very well prepared and he spoke persuasively and intelligently. He had this great quote from Paul Saffo, "Just because something is inevitably going to happen, it doesn't mean it's going to happen any time soon".
What struck me most was how he never once said, err.
Granted, Peter Day is a professional broadcaster and he's been doing it for years and years, but still, he never once said "err". Not once. No umm's, no erm's, no you know's. I was so startled by this I counted erms and umms for the other speakers. On average (and my survey wasn't very scientific admittedly) no speaker could get through one minute without and an erm or an umm or a you know.
I realise that dropping countless 'you knows' into a presentation is mainly a stylistic issue and in the right circumstances it can be effective, but more often than not it's just lazy. It's very easy in this industry to convince yourself that you're a good presenter when actually you're just average. Good speakers are people like Peter Day, Tony Blair or Winston Churchill. As Jon Steel points out in his brilliant book (you have read that book haven't you?) Winston never needed any PowerPoint to get his point across. Neither did Peter Day.
I know Blair and Churchill and the like are talking about much more important things than the difference between Arial and Helvetica, but even your local MP could stand up for 45 minutes and give a competent speech about the local door knob society. No notes, no PowerPoint, no erms. John Dodds once saw Seth Godin stand on a char (in the middle of Buckingham Palace or somewhere) and talk about funny coloured cows for nearly an hour. Could you do that?
Next time you speak, try and do it without any erms.
Next week Kingsley and I will be honoured to be going back to Romania again. We're helping judge the Filter design competition for the second year running, we'll be giving a little talk and we'll be running a workshop. Razvan has started calling us the 'Godfathers' of the competition, which is pretty cool.
I really should have written about this before but I haven't got round to it. Filter is organised by the guys at Oricum. You'll probably never meet a more energetic, committed bunch of people.
A few weeks ago they had Dick Powell out to present. Doesn't that hall look gorgeous? It's the same place we presented at last year, the National Theatre.
Anyway. If you want to know more about Filter get in touch with Razvan or anyone at Oricum.
That is a picture of me, watching a video I downloaded from the internet of my brother giving a talk at a conference in Las Vegas, on my iPod, on a train journey to Maidenhead.
That's good isn't it? The digital world, my friends, is your friend.
(I'm also reading a horrendous supplement about design that I shall hopefully write about later.)
I thought you might like it if I posted my talk here. For the first time ever I've followed Jon Steel's advice and written my talk down, in long hand. One of the benefits of this is that I can post the whole shooting match, here, for you wonderful people.
Hello. My name is (etc, etc, I'll skip that bit here. You lot know who I am.)
Today I’m going to lay out a case for how I think designers, and the design industry, can help with the challenges facing us. I’d love to know what you think about these ideas.
But before we do all that, let’s start with some fun.
Let’s be honest, all this Green / Sustainability stuff can get a bit heavy, can’t it?
I don’t know about you, but whenever I hear someone say Sustainability, it reminds me of Phil Collins. You know, sus sus sustainability, like sus sus sussudio. So in the spirit of that Gorilla ad I wanted to play you this little film I made especially for today.
Seriously, we hear a lot of talk about sustainability in the design industry. Sometimes it even says “sustainability” in client briefs.
According to the Design Council, 95% of design consultancies have less than 5 staff and a turnover of less than £250k a year. So the problem is that when you mention sustainability to 95% of designers they’re not thinking about saving the planet, they’re thinking about next years Annual Report & Accounts.
And that’s part of the problem.
I’m a designer, I run a design company and I accept pounds. We all do.
As an industry we’ve learnt that more stuff equals more pounds. And pounds are good for our sustainability. That’s a pretty simple business model.
If a client asks us to design two postcards; we think, a lot of the time subconsciously, if I can get them to do three postcards that will be great, four will be even better. Because more stuff equals more pounds.
If a client asks us to design a brochure; we say silly things like, “Wouldn’t it be a great idea to send them a letter with the brochure. Yeah, and let’s send them a postcard before we send them the brochure so they know the brochure is coming. And if we send them a postcard before we send them the brochure we really ought to send them a postcard after we send them the brochure.” Much nodding of heads.
I once sat in a meeting where someone said, “I always say, if you’ve got a full colour RPC you should have a full colour envelope”. Yes, they said, “I always say.”
OK, so by default as an industry we produce more stuff because that’s gets us paid more. We all get that, right?
But as an industry we don’t just do that, we also do this:
and this
in case you didn’t spot it
that’s freshly prepared crispy potato slices.
Yes, freshly prepared.
That’s pretty ridiculous, isn’t it?
It’s easy to stand up here and slag off unnecessary packaging, but it’s not just packaging designers who are at fault. Designers, by default, just produce lots of stuff.
Here’s our letterhead.
(I'll skip through these pictures to save pixels...)
Nice isn’t it? Nice big arrow. Bit of Helvetica. You know. That’s the one we use for short messages. This is the one we use for longer letters. Oh and there’s this one as well. We use that, er, when we’re bored of the orange one. And there’s this one too. We use this one for invoices.
So here they are all together. Hands up - I designed these. But it’s ridiculous isn’t it? How can we justify 4 different letterheads? You can’t.
And it’s not just packaging and it’s not just self indulgent self promotional stuff.
It’s classics like this.
Is there really a need for this nowadays?
I know there’s more than a designer involved here, marketing managers and brand managers and account managers can all take their share of the blame; but seriously, as designers we could have stopped this. Really, someone should have stood up and said, “Excuse me, but isn’t that a little unnecessary?”
So, the climate change elephant in the industry is, designers, it’s our fault.
I honestly think we have to admit that before we can move on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, as I already mentioned there are loads of other people involved, but whose fault is it that a swede comes wrapped in cellophane? That potatoes come, freshly prepared, in a great big fucking plastic box?
It’s the designers fault.
And if you won’t agree that it’s the designers fault at the very least you’ve got to admit that the designer has done nothing to stop it – which in my view makes it the designers fault.
Now, I don’t want to stand up here and say all designers are bad and we should just get everyone to make less stuff. That’s lovely and everything, but it’s very unrealistic and it’s not gonna help with this bit.
If more stuff equals more pounds, than less stuff equals less pounds, right?
Now you might think that a gas guzzling 4.8 litre car can never be environmentally friendly, but just think about that stat for a bit. What they’re saying is that 60% of the stuff we’ve made is so desirable, so well put together, so well designed, that people are still using them.
Imagine if 60% of other stuff was still in use. I don’t know about you, but I’d be happy if 60% of the iPods I’d owned were still working.
Imagine if 60% of carrier bags were still being used. Imagine if 60% of computers were still in use today. 60% of food packaging was still in use.
Lewis Mumford, the historian said “Why should we so gratuitously assume, as we constantly do, that the mere existence of a mechanism for manifolding or of mass production carries with it an obligation to use it to the fullest capacity?”
Or why do constantly we make as much stuff as we can, rather than as much stuff as we need?
Now. Take a look at this:
This is a video simulation of all planes flying across America in 24 hours.
These are the flight paths from a Heathrow take off.
The designer in me says wouldn’t it be nicer if some of those lines were, y’know, a little bit straighter. I could drop those flight paths into Freehand, mess about with the Bezier curves and straighten that mess out in no time at all.
A report in June in that well known design journal The Economist found that “if air traffic control systems were reorganized” a fuel efficiency gain of 12% could be made. Fuel efficiency gain of 12%.
What do they mean by reorganized? A continuous gentle descent into the airport (as opposed to a stepped descend, hold, descend again approach) could save around $100k per year, per aircraft. British Airways have 235 planes so that’s a saving of $23.5M every year just by redesigning the flight paths. 23 million dollars just with a bit of Freehand work!
And obviously, not only are we saving money, we’re saving fuel.
Ok, I’m aware that all sounds a bit naive.
So I spoke to some air traffic controllers. They said that whilst that would work, you can’t just go around redesigning flight paths. There are all sort of restrictions. For example you can’t fly over Buckingham Palace.
But listen to their other ideas for making flight paths shorter, this is the exact words,
“Better airport signage = better retrieval of baggage = better turn around time for aircraft loading and unloading = more gates available through operating hours = more aircraft can be landed in a given time period = less aircraft time in the air waiting to land = less fuel wastage from circling aircraft.”
“Even better carry on luggage storage may mean less time loading/unloading = more gates available for a new plane to land at = less time in the air waiting to land. Maybe it's not better storage but better carry on luggage.”
“Maybe it's better exits in an aircraft - could the side of the aircraft just roll up?”
“Maybe the aircraft could be a "canister" carrier, unload the canister, pickup a new one and away you go.”
Let’s look at what they said there: Better airport signage. Better luggage storage. Better carry on luggage. Better exits. Just better aircraft. Aren’t these all design problems? Are you starting to see what I mean?
That other esteemed design publication, BBC News online, reported in February that Belkin, the people that make USB sticks etc, reviewed the packaging on one of its network card products.
“The alternative design signified a 50% reduction in box volume, which will boost transport efficiency and cut material costs.
The new design saved more than 18,000 kilograms of paper and 2,400 kilograms of plastics each year and reduce packaging-related carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions by 104 tonnes annually - with clear financial and environmental benefits.”
18,000 kilograms of paper. 2,400 kilograms of plastic. 104 tonnes of CO2 emissions.
Clear financial and environmental benefits. Ahh ha, we’re back to pounds again. Good.
You see - I want designers and the design industry to move towards a business model where design is a way of thinking rather than a way of creating more billable units.
Someone with a designer’s brain can spot these problems and can go about solving them.
Someone with a designer’s brain can be invaluable in the fight against climate change.
I keep having this thought that the best design minds in history would see Climate Change as amazing opportunity. Don’t you get the feeling Da Vinci could have knocked up an alternative fuel in his spare time? Don’t you think that Raymond Loewy would have found an efficient way to package some of Tesco’s Finest Swede before his elevenses?
I want this speech to be a rallying call to the design industry. We ought to say to companies don’t use us to implement your shit ideas, use us at a much higher level.
Now, I don’t just mean chuck loads of designers into every boardroom in the country, that wouldn’t work. I mean that people who think like designers think, can see these solutions more easily than others.
In the FTSE 100 38% of CEO’s have an accounting background, 23% sales 18% general management (whatever that means) 0% have design backgrounds.
I want people with design backgrounds to be CEO’s and CFO’s and CMO’s and town planners and air traffic controllers and European Commissioners.
European Commissioners?
You’ll probably have noticed recently that Samsung, Motorola, Sony Ericsson, LG, and Nokia have all agreed to standardize their mobile phone chargers. Everyone can agree that’s a brilliant idea. And I’m sure some designer at Nokia or Motorola had the idea ages ago, but why have they only done this now?
Because the EU's WEEE directive makes manufacturers responsible for some of the costs associated with recycling their equipment, and a broadly applied standard removes the need for a new charger to be distributed with every phone.
This is cheaper (ahhh pounds again) for the manufacturer, and also results in a smaller, less heavy box, which reduces on shipping costs, storage costs, warehouse costs and so on.
So regulation forced them to do it. Wouldn’t it have been nice if it was the other way round? Wouldn’t it have been nice if the CEO of Samsung had a design brain and stuck his neck out and they’d done this off their own back?
I want design to be a management tool. I want designers to get paid (more) for brilliant thinking.
“Reuse, reduce, use less, make smaller, make clever, we're running out of resources can you still do something clever?”
Well to me, that’s a design brief.
All these climate change issues look like design problems to me.
Maybe we won’t be able to get people to change their behaviour so we’ll have to work around that.
My brother lives in America and so I got over there quite a lot. Am I going to stop flying out to see him? Well, yeah, I might but my Mum and Dad won’t. And they’re not gonna miss the opportunity to fly out and see their grand children. So may we have to redesign the planes so that they use 50% less fuel. Maybe boats were the answer? We just need to design them so they’re a little bit faster…
Maybe we need to design a communications system that means they can get the sensation of holding that grandchild from their lounge. I don’t know the answers, but I know that the problems are design problems.
You think I’m mad? Remember when people used to think you needed the tactile feeling of an LP to sell music?
I guess I’m saying to you – I’m a designer. Use me better.
Lots of people keeping saying "I'm sure many people will write a lengthy review of Interesting so I'll keep it short". Welcome, my friends, to the long, unedited, directors cut, full length review of Interesting 2007. Well, a bit longer than most at any rate.
Yes, Simon, more chairs.
The Hall was beautiful. It seemed to be constantly bathed in a lovely dappled sunlight. It wasn't of course, but it just felt that way. The bunting was great. The colours of the chairs perfectly in harmony with the hues of the soft drinks and the wooden floor. That kinda colour co-ordination takes a lot of hard work.
The really nice thing about Interesting 2007 was the attitude of the thing was matched by the attitude of the people. Easy going, happy, grateful, friendly and pliable. Everyone and everything; pliable. I thought everyone just got it. Nothing needed explaining. No one needed telling. Everyone found the right way to do things.
Easy going, happy, grateful, friendly and pliable.
There were some really lovely touches. In fact they were everywhere you looked. And it wasn't a PlannersphereWankFest either. Whilst there were lots of people who knew each other, there were loads who didn't. Which was a good thing.
Going back to pliable, the British randomness of the running order worked like a dream. You couldn't have planned that. In fact it's the kind of thing that would have been destroyed by a committee sat around trying to plan a Muppet talking after the editor of The Spectator. It just worked because it just worked.
It was great to see people collect their tshirts. People were really pleased to get them. That was nice.
Personally I loved the three minutes talks. They had an energy that is missing from all traditional presentations and conferences. I found myself saying that the 20 minute ones were too long, but that's an absurd thing to say. The different pace of the speakers was really charming too.
I can't write about all the speakers. I'd like to, but I can't. Really, I can't. So, here's my Top 5. It's my personal Top 5 and in no way means that someone I've missed was rubbish. Someone's gotta be 6th, as Enid Blyton used to say.
DANGER. NO FLOOR.
1. Dave Funny PancakeShowed some of his brilliant photos. Just side splittingly hilarious. He could still be speaking now and I'd still be laughing. No big tricks, just 200 photos and humour. Genuine fun for all the family. He should tour. Brilliant.
2. Rhodri MarsdenPlayed the saw. Or rather he made that saw sing to within an inch of it's jagged life. In a good way. Watch the video here. So good I played it over the studio stereo this morning. And again and again. And what a choice of song too. Brilliant.
3. Fiona RomeoSpoke about how they created The Science Of Spying exhibition. I really, really want to go to this exhibition but I keep missing it. So this was the next best thing. But more than that, I learnt stuff. The two second learning in public rule for example. Brilliant. And she used the logo in her ppt.
4. Anne I LikeWas a 3D version of her lovely blog. You knew she'd be good didn't you? She was. David helped her design the postcards too. Brilliant.
5. Beeker - Shared what the Muppets and Ibsen had taught her. I don't really know/like the Muppets. And I've no idea who the Dutch bloke was, but Beeker really made this come alive. Touching without being soppy. In depth without being boring. Funny without being stand up. Interesting. Brilliant.
"You're all adults, it's only £20, so, you know, don't complain." Russell asking the audience to be kind.
"That's Marcus. Do you know him, he's dead. Well, he used to be dead." Clare trying to explain to a startled helper about Marcus.
"But I am dead." Marcus' response when I told him the above story.
"Thanks. I'm doing a 20 minute slot." Matt's response when I told him I thought the 20 minute ones were too long.
"The Muppets were only interested in the lower numbers." Beeker telling us about Muppet snobbery.
"Knots were invented by Witches." Tom deconstructs and reinvents history again and again and again.
I've got loads and loads to say about the graphics, but that will be another day and another post.
It's in New York which is a good start. Dan is blogging it here and the talks seem fascinating. More fascinating than they look on paper, and I mean that in a really good way.
If you're not in New York then you can follow the proceedings through Dan's blog. Already there's a brilliant post about what's happening in NYC right now including the Militarily induced sexual tension(there's a link you won't be able to resist clicking on). There's Robert Krulwich who talks about framing and how the media use and abuse space, including some illustrations from a craftily arranged political "crowd".
There's Tobias Frere-Jones who's photographed over 40,000 bits of street typography in New York.
"A favourite sign is that of the Manhattan Railway Co., which ran the
elevated trains in New York. Frere-Jones notes that the last El was
torn down 50 years ago, yet the lettering is still there - on Division
St".
And there's also Stanley Greenberg who photographs things like New York's water system. Amazing stuff. I wish I was there.
I was at Northampton University the other day with April, doing some portfolio surgeries and giving a teeny talk. We've hooked up with Cardiff, Glasgow and Northampton this year as part of the D&AD Clinic thing. A jolly good experience it's been too.
During the portfolio surgeries it was obvious that the thing the students struggled with most was typography. That's fair enough, typography is one of the hardest bits of graphic design. Good typography is rare, very good typography is very rare.
One of the students asked if there were any rules I could tell them to help their typography. Good question.
Whilst there are typographic rules, there aren't really any rules you can tell someone in a ten minute portfolio surgery, so I said; when in doubt keep it simple, remember that readability is the most important thing, obviously no more than seven words per line, stick to a simple typeface that you know and get a decent hierarchy sorted out on paper before you start.
All good advice, but I'm not sure that it was that helpful. So, my beloved listeners, what basic typographic advice would you give a third year graphic design student?
If you've spent good money (or if your company has spent good money) on a conference or a lecture the least you can do is sit at the bloody front.
If you look closely at the picture above (bottom left, in a bit) you can see me and Beeker sat right at the front. I'm in the gold corduroy jacket, Beeker is the one looking slightly pissed off because I made her sit at the front.
What's wrong with sitting at the front? It's not bloody school.
You're probably going to hear some really interesting people so you want to be as close as you can, don't you? It's not like a fucking Derren Brown show where they're going to drag you out of the audience and make you give a stuffed donkey a blow job. So sit at the front. Ta.
I met three people last week (who weren't friends of Russell) who mentioned the Interesting conference. Most of them bemoaned the fact that they didn't manage to get tickets. Have no fear because Russell has released another 100 tickets which I think you can buy today.
You may or may not have heard of Russell's Interesting 2007 conference. We've been working on the look of it (doesn't seem right to write logo or brand). It's an unusual project project because obviously we don't need any letterheads or anything like that. But we do need something. So here's the brief we've been working to.
It must be interesting. Obviously. But there is a fine line between interesting and downright messy.
It must encompass the principles of web 2.0 (by that I mean updateable, participatory, flexible and interactive) whilst being offline quite a lot.
It must utilise the attendees as collaborators.
Assume zero budget.
It must be able to dictate the look of the hall.
It must be carbon neutral.
It must be good.
Got all that?
So here's the logotype for the conference.
You can download it here as an eps, so if you want to mix it up, make your own stuff or simply use it on your blog then feel free. You can also use the jpeg above, obviously. It's designed to be easy to stencil and screen and steal.
Here's some other things we're going to do.
Posters If you're going to the conference, send us your old posters. Old conference posters, Def Leopard posters. Anything. Bear in mind you won't get them back, so please don't send in your limited edition Saul Bass prints or your signed Banksys. We're going to make something exciting (and big) from all of them, but it's a secret for now.
Tshirts If you're going to the conference, send us one of your tshirts. We'll screenprint it with the logo, anywhere and anyhow we like. It will be ready for you to collect on the day where it will constitute official conference wear. And it's guaranteed to be the right size.
Bags We're going to collect all the carrier bags we use before June and reuse them as conference bags to hold anything you may need to carry on the day. We'll screen print them with the logotype and they should look something like this.
How does that sound?
Please send things to: Emma Holloway, Interesting 2007, The Design Conspiracy, 12 Stukeley Street, London WC2B 5LQ. Be sure to say who you are so we can make sure you get the right tshirt back.
Remember that you won't get the posters back and they will probably be cut up. You will get the tshirt back but it will have the logotype screen printed on it.
At the start of the week I was in Romania and at the the end of the week I was in the TUC Centre.
The theme for the Future Marketing Summit this year was Integration and I was speaking on the Design panel. So let's talk about that first.
The panel consisted of me, Tim Ashton from Antidote, Douglas Broadley from Imagination, Mike Bennett from Digit and Lucy Johnston from somewhere I can't remember.
Me saying something worth writing down.
We discussed the growing importance of design in adland and why design is different and why design is important. Mike made a good point that design is very holistic in it's nature and offered up Apple as a good example (ads, stores, packaging, product, interface).
I suggested that design is still about problem solving whereas I don't think that advertising is always is. That didn't go down very well.
I also unleashed my soundbite about the value of design: imagine what would happen to GM's share price if they announced that Jonathan Ive had joined their board as Head of Design - it would go through the roof. That was better received.
We all agreed that design must be brought in earlier in any collaborative process, not added on as decoration at the end. Like all these things we could have discussed it long into the night...
The rest of the conference (summit) was really enjoyable. Lots of very clever people speaking and lots of 'big names' in the audience, in fact if you were a young person starting out in advertising the access to the top dogs was quite amazing. Where else can you walk up to Michael Wall (President of Fallon) or Rory Sutherland (Vice Chairman of Ogilvy) or Steve Henry (needs no introduction)?
I met Beeker and Famous Rob for the first time which was nice. I've met Beeker before but only really briefly. The weird thing about blogging is that they both felt like old friends already - Known Unknowns as Richard might say.
Known Unknowns - Famous Rob getting more famous.
Rob still hasn't got a job, so please give him one now. He's clever, dedicated and refreshingly he often has opinions that aren't the same as everyone else in the blogoplanoshpere. He should get a job based on that alone.
Richard and Russell were also there. Russell sat on a panel and (as you'd expect) caught the mood of the crowd well. Richard chaired a panel and was startlingly brilliant. Not many Chairs bothered with an introduction. Richard did and he even managed to shoehorn his Donald Rumsfeld quote into it. Funny and clever.
Huntingdon quotes Rumsfeld - adland gasps.
The summit kicked off with big Kevin doing his big Sisomo set piece.
I was really expecting this to be awful, it wasn't. It was OK. It was slick. Very slick.
Kevin knows how to work a stage and he knows how to work a PowerPoint. Kevin has the weirdest accent I've ever heard and as Beeker correctly points out he says some bonkers things like, "clients say to me ROI, I say to them Rinky Dink!'. But then if the Global CEO President General in Chief of Saatchi and Saatchi can't say things like that, who can?
I'll glad I saw Sisomo. I was left feeling dazzled by bullshit but I can understand why clients would go mad for Kevin's schtick.
Who else was there?
Mike from Digit was brilliant. You don't get to hear digital people talk enough at these kind of things. My favourite bit was the Sony Erickson camera phone thing. It's lovely to see online moving offline in a clever way. The Persil Dirt Is Good stuff was good too. The hairs on Richard's neck stood on end when someone said Dirt Is Good.
Tim from Antidote was good. The work they're doing is great. I saw the Shell ad they did when I was in Barcelona and I liked the concept a lot. And they are involved with We Are What We Do and the Anna Hindmarch handbag thing. All good stuff you'd liked to be involved with.
Tim from Antidote. Great presentation, terrible slide design.
Criticisms?
As always these things are too long and people speak for too long. By the end of the afternoon you can't help but get serious conference fatigue.
People always ask questions that go, 'hello, this is my cv, this is what I think, do you agree?'. That is not a question. A question is a sentence that ends with a question mark.
Beeker and Famous Rob have more reviews (Beeker here and Rob here). Rob was an official conference blogger and Beeker was semi-official conference blogger so check them out for more.
The summit was one of the dates on my World Tour, which is going well. All venues sold out. I'm back at home now having a few Lemsips and getting ready for Russell's gig on Wednesday and the big finale on Thursday.
At the start of the week I was in Romania, again. Their hospitality and generosity is amazing, so right at the start - thanks.
Kingsley and I popped over to help judge the Filter Design Competition and talk about being a designer, branding, The Design Conspiracy and the Sex Pistols.
So much happened it's hard to know where to start. So we'll start with some pics. More over here on the gorgeous Flickr.
The Filter Design Competition is organised by Oricum. Oricum is Romanian for "any how" and is a brilliant name for a brilliant organisation. They aim to be the most important youth organisation in Eastern Europe within 5 years. I think they'll do it. Easily.
This time we spoke inside here, the National Theatre. They have some cracking venues in Romania.
In the morning we spoke to the ten Filter finalists and gave our humble opinions on their really good work.
Then it was Ben and Kingsley (we've heard all the jokes).
We changed our talk the morning of the presentation. We were going to talk about us and how great we are, but that didn't really seem helpful. We'd brought along some before and after branding case studies and we photographed these on the hotel window sil and dropped them into a presentation instead.
We also VPN'd via a rogue wireless network, from the National Theatre so we could add in a video at the last minute. Gotta love that IT.
We talked about getting your first design job (hard), starting an agency, running an agency and doing a design degree. We answered loads of questions. We recorded a one and a half hour Podcast. Which will be uploaded here soon.
We were taken to some amazing bars and restaurants.
As well as being kind and generous, the Oricum guys are clever, passionate, organised and dedicated. There is an energy there that will ensure they succeed. Special thanks to Diana for organising everything.
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